Top 5 NFL QB Ever (modern era)

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Originally Posted by Ironlung

The Colts defense is garbage. Mathis is their best player and you could argue that Powers is their next best player. Freeney's nothing more than a soon as the ball is snapped run for the qb player. It's getting easier for teams to scheme around that. Playing the run is not even in his repertoir. There is a place for a guy like Freeney and he's valuable, but it'd be nice if he weren't a 1 trick pony. Like Stripes said, if they're ahead they look like something other than hot garbage. Bob Sanders, when's the last time he played 2006? He's litterally been hurt and sat out more games than he's played. He was hurt and out again this season on the first drive of the season. He's a talent but it's never seen because he's played less than 2 seasons combined when you take out injury missed games. It's hard to count that as talent on the field, when he's never on the field. Throwing Bethea in as a counter argument is pretty weak too. He couldn't tackle a blanket and has C+ at best cover ability. You should have mentioned Bullitt before him, even though he's out for the year with an injury now. They played some cat named Pablo Francisco or something like that at S last night. Those defensive rankings are skewed as well when you think about how teams have to play the Colts. If Saturday leaves Indy, you'd never hear from him again. He can't run block (nor can anyone else on that OL) and he's small. He'd go the way of Pollard. For Harrison and Wayne, what does being highly rated and 1st round draft picks have to do with anything. There are 2-3 every year that do nothing. I'm not saying that they haven't been good, my question was if Harrison or Wayne had gone to Carolina, would you have thought of either as being Steve Smith-like or would they have been more like Meachem in NO, a good solid player but not an A list WR.

IMO, the Colts talent consists of

Manning A+
Freeney A-
Mathis A+
Wayne B (I still wonder how truly good he is, if he's not where he is is he a C)
The mysterious Bob Sanders 3-4 years ago A now B-
I wouldn't put any of the rest of their players above a C.
I think Addai is talented, but there are at least 10-15 RB's I'd take ahead of him. Off the top of my head... Thomas Jones, Jones-Drew, Johnson, Choice, Felix Jones, Forte, Jamal Charles, Peterson, Mendenhol, Stewart, Tomlinson, DeAngelo Williams.

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Sanders was defensive POY in 07. But he has been non-existant since then, I agree. But he is very talented.
I also agree that Mathis is by far Indy's best defender, but Freeney has been a sack/fumble machine for years. His role alone, a pass rusher, makes him a viable threat.

Whichever DB is hurt is the one I was talking about. If its Bullitt thats who I was talking about, I can't keep them straight.

Like I told Stripes, I agree the stats get skewed a bit, but a top ranked defense is a top ranked defense. Points allowed is a very big stat, and Indy has finished in the top 20 the last three years.

My point about Wayne and Harrison is that they were viewed as being very talented guys. Its not as if they were late round picks who nobody saw coming having huge careers. I also believe you are devaluing Harrison by not recognizing how much he helped Peyton out early. When Peyton was young, he was nowhere near the QB he is now, and Harrison was his go-to guy and his safety blanket. I think you can credit a lot of Peyton's success early in his career to Harrison just as much as you can attribute Harrison's overall success to Peyton.

And I think Addai is a top 15 RB, its close but I think he is. I do not think T. Choice has shown to be better, Addai has been very good rushing and receiving for years now, and Indy is a terrible run blocking team. But I agree with your list aside from Choice and maybe Forte. But I think you forgot a few, I would take Ray Rice, Frank Gore, Steven Jackson, and Arain Foster over Addai.

I love to rank positions, so Ill do my RB rankings:
1) Chris Johnson (stats alone, but I believe A. Peterson is a better pure runner)
2) Adrian Peterson
3) Maurice Jones-Drew
4) Steven Jackson
5) Ray Rice
6) Frank Gore
7) Rashard Mendenhall
8) DeAngelo Williams
9) Jamall Charles
10) Jon Stewart
11) Arian Foster
12) Thomas Jones
13) Joseph Addai
14) Felix Jones
15) LT

and pepperoni;
I said after the merger, so Starr's 3 titles before are not relevant.

its not just about SB rings and wins, its about performance in those biggest games, and nobody played any bigger than Montana. Aikman is a great QB, but he is not in that upper echelon.
Staubach is a great, top 10 QB ever, but he is not viewed in the same light as a guy like Montana or Elway.
Super Bowl appearances are nowhere near as important as Super Bowl wins. If you make it 5 times and lose all but once, how is that better than going 4-4?
And no other player, let alone QB, has been a 3-time Super Bowl MVP.

Bradshaw is the only guy with as many starting QB rings in the SB, so I dunno where you are getting with that.

and im sorry, guys like Plunkett, Big Ben, McMahon, Griese, Simms, Morrall are nowhere near top 5 QB's, not even close.
like I said, its not just about winning Super Bowls, its the facts surrounding the situations that define greatness.

When you are talking comparing guys like Elway and Montana, since the stats are so close in a lot of regions, its the other accomplishments that define the best. Its not just about rings, thats why Plunkett is nowhere near Montana or Elway. Its about an overall body of performance, an overall career as a QB.
and Montana does not have the best stats of all time, not even close (but neither does Elway) but when you factor in their actual performance, their clutch games the ability to not let their team lose, they are two of the top 4 QBs of all time since the merger.

Its mostly subjective, and I view clutch performances, big wins, and always playing the best at the highest level and in the most important games a big factor.

But even tho its very subjective, guys like Griese and Big Ben are nowhere near the level of an Elway or a Montana.

Side note;
Im glad you brought up Unitas. If we were ranking QB's overall from all generations, I may have Unitas #1. I believe he may be the best QB to ever walk on the planet.

But Montana couldn't do it without an ACL.

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Originally Posted by 1inStripes

But Montana couldn't do it without an ACL.

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Hey now we don't know if that's true, because Montana never had to worry about it.

but Joe was so awesome, he could do it with no ACL in either knee. Shoot Joe could do it without a left arm! haha

[QUOTE=Biggin;1840850] I love to rank positions, so Ill do my RB rankings:
1) Chris Johnson (stats alone, but I believe A. Peterson is a better pure runner)
2) Adrian Peterson
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actually they showed last night on MNF the stats from each back. they only compared stats from the time both were in the league at the same time and that stats were almost identical. CJ had more receptions and AP had more fumbles but their rushing stats were identical.

right, CJ had way more receptions, but half the fumbles.

it didnt show YPC, so im not sure whose is higher.

yeah, the running stats were scarry they were almost exactly the same

adrian peterson cant hold onto the ****ed ball to save his life. still, I wouldnt want to hit him. Im already having flashbacks of william campbell just bringing up good running backs.

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yeah, AD might be my last choice on having to tackle a RB.
Maurice Jones-Drew is up there, so is Mendenhall.

the Alabama duo is much of the same, both guys are not guys I would line up to tackle.

but Peterson runs so violently and hard, its no wonder he fumbles so often. If I am a coach, that's a problem I can live with. If he keeps running like this, I can deal with 7-8 fumbles a season.

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Originally Posted by Biggin

If he keeps running like this, I can deal with 7-8 fumbles a season.

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unless they come in the playoffs........... but yeah, as long as he doesnt cost them games then im all for it.

I don't think he has fumbled this year has he? the one against the Cowboys they put it on Favre but I think it was AP's fault